Author
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Topic: charts is charts - Donna's charts
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rnelson Member
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posted 07-01-2008 04:37 PM
These are from Donna.I'll cut an paste a little more info from her email shortly. This is a LEAT with two charts. The CVOS appears to have been completed after the first two charts. Chart 1 page 1 of 3
![](charts%20is%20charts%20-%20Donna's%20charts%20-%20Polygraph%20Place%20Bulletin%20Board_files/cht1-1.jpg) Chart 1 page 2 of 3
![](charts%20is%20charts%20-%20Donna's%20charts%20-%20Polygraph%20Place%20Bulletin%20Board_files/cht1-2.jpg) Chart 1 page 3 of 3
![](charts%20is%20charts%20-%20Donna's%20charts%20-%20Polygraph%20Place%20Bulletin%20Board_files/cht1-3.jpg) Chart 2 page 1 of 3
![](charts%20is%20charts%20-%20Donna's%20charts%20-%20Polygraph%20Place%20Bulletin%20Board_files/cht2-1.jpg) Chart 2 page 2 of 3
![](charts%20is%20charts%20-%20Donna's%20charts%20-%20Polygraph%20Place%20Bulletin%20Board_files/cht2-2.jpg) Chart 2 page 3 of 3
![](charts%20is%20charts%20-%20Donna's%20charts%20-%20Polygraph%20Place%20Bulletin%20Board_files/cht2-3.jpg)
CVOS page 1 of 2
![](charts%20is%20charts%20-%20Donna's%20charts%20-%20Polygraph%20Place%20Bulletin%20Board_files/CVOS_1of2.jpg) CVOS page 2 of 2
![](charts%20is%20charts%20-%20Donna's%20charts%20-%20Polygraph%20Place%20Bulletin%20Board_files/CVOS_2of2.jpg) There is a CM question on the CVOS.
r
![](charts%20is%20charts%20-%20Donna's%20charts%20-%20Polygraph%20Place%20Bulletin%20Board_files/war_room.jpg)
------------------ "Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the war room." --(Stanley Kubrick/Peter Sellers - Dr. Strangelove, 1964)
[This message has been edited by rnelson (edited 07-01-2008).] IP: Logged |
ebvan Member
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posted 07-01-2008 05:09 PM
could you identify tracings Top to Bottom?Thanks IP: Logged |
rnelson Member
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posted 07-01-2008 05:41 PM
I believe they are (top to bottom)Activity P2 (thoracic) P1 (abdominal) EDA Cardio P02 (pulse oximiter - because you'll scare people if you call it a PPG) r
------------------ "Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the war room." --(Stanley Kubrick/Peter Sellers - Dr. Strangelove, 1964)
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Taylor Member
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posted 07-01-2008 05:42 PM
Top is MV pad 2nd two are pnuemos, 3rd is GSR, 4th Cardio and 5th PLEIP: Logged |
Taylor Member
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posted 07-01-2008 05:52 PM
Thanks for posting them Ray. BTW, this is a LE from CO (2 yrs) that recently moved to UT and is trying to transfer his PO status. IP: Logged |
Taylor Member
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posted 07-01-2008 06:13 PM
BTW: IR1 Is your name: SR2 Regarding the information you supplied to * DY intend to answer all questions truthfully? C3 While working in LE, DYE discuss sensitive police information w/people that DNH the need to know? R4 HY committed any undetected crimes TYHNTM@? R5 DY falsify or omit any information on your application? C6 While working in LE, DYE not respond when you saw a criminal act? R7 RU w/h any information about your use of illegal drugs? R8 DY tell the truth about your use of alcohol? C9 In any of your previous jobs, would anyone say you could not be trusted? R10 In the past 5 years hy stolen anything from an employer? C11 While working in LE dyd anything dishonest or unethical?
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Buster Member
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posted 07-01-2008 06:25 PM
I never did a pre-employment(except the academy) but I see a SR in R7 in the first chart, but not in Chart #2.One thing I noted was that I estimated 8-10 breaths a minute in Chart #2. That is a bit slow. Also, the subject's cardio may have reacted a little early in chart #2---C3. Scared to make a call, but would be suspicious of the slow breathing.
[This message has been edited by Buster (edited 07-01-2008).] IP: Logged |
Taylor Member
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posted 07-01-2008 08:06 PM
This applicant has a BA in Psychology and stated up front he didn't believe in polygraphs. He denied visiting AP but I know he did by his body language. In my pre-employment packet I ask – what’s your biggest concern about the polygraph? He wrote: 'Physical indicators are not exclusively interpreted as deception.' My next question is - What is the one thing you are afraid I will ask you about? He wrote: 'drug use'.The only thing in his BI was he used THC in 2001 4x's. He said in CO they had a problem on his poly drug questions but hired him anyway. He said he was not on medications and denied using CM's. He is a 25 year old white male in good physical shape. Also, after the charts I put the GSR's on my fingers to see about that 'weird roll' and when I did - he wouldn't look at me (btw, my GSR was fine). He didn’t question why I put the GSR’s on or anything. I must admit during the CQ’s his eyes fluttered more than on the RQ’s. I got focused on his eyes and may have missed him gently pressing his fingers. I have never seen a GSR like that and would like any interpretation. After the first chart I was irritated (internally) – but hey I am a red head! I told him to stop controlling his breathing when the second chart started. Plus there appears to have some swallowing but I didn’t witness it at the time….again I must have been focused on his eye mvmt. After the CVOS (strong reaction to manipulating the exam) - I asked him about the why he is manipulating the polygraph (CM's) and he said 'you have your opinion and I can't change that'. He didn’t get red in the face or irritated.
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Barry C Member
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posted 07-01-2008 08:49 PM
These are the same type of PO2 tracings I got with Lafayette. I don't think they really represent what's happening in the guy's finger. I don't know why you get all those large spikes in the pulses. I think I've posted a graphic below of CPS PO2 data. (It's an R/I chart somebody sent me. I don't have a lot to choose from here at home.) You'll see they don't filter out the slow wave changes like the other manufactures do. The Utah folks say not filtering like that is necessary; although, Limestone's PO2 data is easy to read, and they keep a constant baseline (filter). Anyhow, look at the pulses. They don't look like Donna's charts, and with Lafayette, my charts looked just like Donna's. I've never had tracings like those with the Stoelting. I haven't had time to compare both at the same time yet, but it's on the list. ![Photobucket](charts%20is%20charts%20-%20Donna's%20charts%20-%20Polygraph%20Place%20Bulletin%20Board_files/PO2Example.jpg.html)
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Barry C Member
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posted 07-01-2008 08:50 PM
I guess I still do remember how to do it!![Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting](charts%20is%20charts%20-%20Donna's%20charts%20-%20Polygraph%20Place%20Bulletin%20Board_files/mz_4426555_bodyshot_175x233.gif.html)
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Taylor Member
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posted 07-01-2008 10:57 PM
Barry, you might want to set your photo bucket as personal not pubic. So are there any other thoughts on this guys charts. I called him INC due to manipulated distorted segments. The chief in this case will not hire him with INC/CMs. Plus I am insterested on those rolling GSRs..... guys give me some feedback..please. Thanks to Gordon Barland for giving me feedback over the phone. [This message has been edited by Taylor (edited 07-02-2008).] IP: Logged |
rnelson Member
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posted 07-01-2008 11:04 PM
Barry, That P02 data is a lot easier to interpret. Have you been talking to Limestone or Lafayette about this. I know you are working on a PO2 measurement study, and I have a request. Can you sent me the Logistic Regression Coeffecients or the Standardized Canonical Coefficients from a Discriminate Analysis for you four component and three component models. The standardized DA coefficients are easily transformed to proportional weighting values (using the inverse of the cumulative normal distribution function) to add the P02 to OSS-3. Plus I think I know how to transform the LR coefficients to proportions - using (1-C)/(1+C). If I am correct, these two easy transformations would allow you to directly compare the coefficients from your DA and LR analysis - which is typically regarded as not all that easy. r
------------------ "Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the war room." --(Stanley Kubrick/Peter Sellers - Dr. Strangelove, 1964)
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ebvan Member
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posted 07-02-2008 01:58 AM
It's interesting that the peaks (or in this case hillocks) that occur in the electrodermal channel appear to be inverse of the pneumo tracings. Whatever was occurring must hav been timed with his expiration somehow. It almost appears that he was pressing very lightly against something padded (chair arm? abdomen?)each time he exhaled. I've never seen this occur naturally and unless it can be explained as natural it must be manufactured------------------ Ex scientia veritas IP: Logged |
rnelson Member
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posted 07-02-2008 07:21 AM
The consistency of that EDA leads me to believe it is not behavioral. It would take a great deal of concentration to sustain that synchrony between EDA and respiration for that long. Also, if you look at the respiratory features that do alter brething (the DB before question 2 on chart 2, and the respiratory activity in the CVOS). Still, it doesn't seem natural that the EDA is influenced by respiratory activity. So, the real question is why would that occur? Its their any physiological linkeage? Respiration is accomplished by the thoracic intercostal muscles and abdominal muscles, which are ennervated by acetylcholine in the sympathetic/peripheral nervous system, but are also regulated by sympathetic/autonomic demands in the case of respiration. EDA is ennervated by acetylcholine in the sympathetic/autonomic neurons in the skin. I don't know enough about this to understand the mechanisms of influence between these. Is there a possible mechanical explanation? Where was his hand/EDA placed during the exam? Where is hands unusually sweaty, or dry? What does the raw EDA look like? How tight were the EDA electrodes wrapped around his fingers? Is there any possible medical explanation, such as some anticholinergic med or (medicinal herb) that would cause this? In the end, its probably best not to fill in the blanks with our imaginations, just because we want an answer. We simply don't know. r ------------------ "Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the war room." --(Stanley Kubrick/Peter Sellers - Dr. Strangelove, 1964)
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